Choice on Units of Measurement: Markings and Sales

[fanf]

https://dotat.at/@/2022-06-04-metric.html

My response to the UK government consultation on using imperial units of measure for retail.

Regarding the foreword to the consultation description, my children were weighed in kilos at birth, so whoever wrote the foreword must be wery old, and talking about babies who are now grown adults.

And for metrological purposes, British weights and measures have been derived from the metric system since the international convention on the metre in 1875 and the production of the new metric prototypes in London in 1898, because the metric standards were made to a higher quality with greater reliability than the old imperial standards. So it's incorrect to say that we started adopting the metric system in 1995; that was actually when we started abolishing imperial (and that was at the initiative of the UK government, not the EU).

oops, I should have mentioned that the tories were in power in 1995

Q. 1 for all,

1 a) Are there any specific areas of consumer transactions that should be a priority for allowing a choice in units of measurement, and why?

None, because there is no need to make it more confusing to compare sizes and prices.

1 b) Are there any specific areas that you think should be excluded from a choice in units of measurement, and why?

There should be a single set of standard units of measure so that it is as easy as possible to compare the sizes and prices of goods, especially (e.g.) price per kilo or price per litre.

1 c) If an item is sold in imperial measures, should there be a requirement for a metric equivalent alongside it?

Metric measures should always be required, and there should always be clear labelling showing the price per some power of 10 (e.g. 100g or 1kg)

Q. 2 for businesses,

n/a (I am replying as an individual)

Q. 3 for consumers,

3 a) If you had a choice, would you want to purchase items: * (i) in imperial units? * (ii) in imperial units alongside a metric equivalent?

I always want to purchase items in metric (preferably a round number when measured in metric units), and I want it to be easy to find the quantity labelled in metric.

3 b) Are you more likely to shop from businesses that sell in imperial units?

I am likely to avoid shops that use imperial units, because the measurements will be confusing and unfamiliar.

3 c) Do you foresee any costs or benefits to you from businesses being permitted to sell: * (i) solely in imperial units? * (ii) in imperial units alongside a less prominent metric equivalent?

I expect it will be detrimental to allow businesses to sell in imperial units only, because it will make it easier for them to confuse customers, misprice goods, and hide their malpractice.

3 d) Do you have experience of buying solely in imperial units?

I am 47 years old and I cannot remember when imperial measures were in wide use for anything except milk and beer.

Milk, for example, is often confusing when 2 litre bottles are sold alongside 4 pint bottles, and I have to carefully examine the labels to find out which is the larger volume and what is the price per litre of the 4 pint bottle.

For beer, how can I compare a pint bottle and a 33cl bottle? It’s relatively easy for 50cl vs 33cl because the ratio is 3/2. In practice I think of a pint as about half a litre, so I can compare in metric. And, when I am served beer in a pub in a pint-to-brim glass, what I usually get is closer to half a litre than a pint.

Q. 4 for trading standards,

n/a (I am replying as an individual)

Comments

[mtbc]

Although the same age, I do have plenty of childhood memory of Imperial units and feel very conversant in them, e.g., until an adult I knew my weight only in stone, not kilos, and on the mantlepiece ahead of me I still have my parents' thermometer marked in Fahrenheit, but, in terms of sanity and consistency and now-entrenchment, I concur that just sticking with metric makes best sense now.

[sweh]

Yeah, I'm maybe 5 years older and I definitely remember petrol, fruit, veg, meat all being sold in imperial (I'm pretty sure these are the ones the Cons want people to recall "with love"; ha!). I also remember loose sweets being sold in imperial (eg "quart" - quarter pound).

Bathroom scales measured in stones/lbs and kitchen scales measured in lbs/ozs. I remember, as a kid, thinking "why is that one split into 14 but the other one split into 16? That doesn't make sense". Dad measured in yards/ft/in; tape measures had imperial on the top and metric on the bottom of the tape.

But I was only taught metric at school.

I can not think of a single good reason to start using imperial again. I moved to the US in 2001 where it's still in use, and it's a PITA.

[autopope]

I am 57 and almost totally metric-in-the-head; my reply mirrors yours, except I was terser and ruder about the proposal.

Prediction: they're going to ignore us, this was phrased as a push-poll (one designed to elicit consent, not to honestly gauge public opinion).

[brainwane]

Good luck and thank you for sharing this!

[mtbc]

Yeah, my father was an engineer who was all Imperial units too, it was from him I learned psi and cwt and such, secondary school was where I learned metric.

[fanf]

Well I'm a weights and measures nerd so I might have been exaggerating a little bit, but what I said is nevertheless true: I honestly can't remember when the switch to metric happened in terms of personal experience, and imperial measures are objectively more confusing and unfamiliar than metric (even though I know a lot of nerdy details about how imperial works).

[bens_dad]

When I read the questions I wondered whether it was written by a non-dom who was planning to stuff us all then run off to their metric tax haven.

I also needed to checked whether it was genuine.

[vyvyanx]

I've filled this in as well, but have little expectation of the Government paying any attention to the responses, any more than they did to the consultations on the privatisation of Channel 4 (96% said no; Nadine Dorries ignored them), or reform of the Gender Recognition Act (64% supported self-ID, about 80% supported doing away with requirements for medical certificates or "real life experience", 65% supported legal recognition for non-binary people; Liz Truss ignored them).

[naath]

I'm 38 and recall weather people saying F and C numbers, and of course b33r comes in pints. I'm not price sensitive but your point about comparing prices is well made.

(16th C. me can do a nice rant on the English vs Flemish Ell at 5/4 or 3/4 he yard, a cloth measure; I thin k the confusion is intentional...)

[ephemera]

Thank you - I've both filled it out, and passed it on to others who also wished to do so, all in the expectation that it will be blithely ignored by the powers that be, but - what else can one do?!

[armb]

I have flashbacks to a project I did as a student engineer. Lots of old plans and diagrams, pressures in a mixture of Pascals, pounds per square inch, millimetres of mercury, and foot head of water. Flows in cubic metres per second, gallons per hour, and slugs per second.
(A slug is that mass that a one pound force accelerates at one foot per second-squared. A poundal is that force that accelerates a one pound mass at at one foot per second-squared.)